Info

Columbia Energy Exchange

Columbia Energy Exchange features in-depth conversations with the world’s top energy and climate leaders from government, business, academia and civil society. The program explores today’s most pressing opportunities and challenges across energy sources, financial markets, geopolitics and climate change as well as their implications for both the U.S. and the world.
RSS Feed
Columbia Energy Exchange
2021
September
August
July
June
May
April
March
February
January


2020
December
November
October
September
August
July
June
May
April
March
February
January


2019
December
November
October
September
August
July
June
May
April
March
February
January


2018
December
November
October
September
August
July
June
May
April
March
February
January


2017
December
November
October
September
August
July
June
May
April
March
February
January


2016
December
November
October
September
August
July
June
May
April
March
February
January


Categories

All Episodes
Archives
Categories
Now displaying: Category: News and Politics
Sep 22, 2021

Currently, high gas prices are rippling throughout much of Europe and Asia. The spike has driven up the price of coal too and sent electricity prices for businesses and homeowners to record highs.

Governments are meeting with stakeholders and developing emergency plans. But as winter approaches, they’re in a time crunch to find a fix as large parts of Asia and Europe risk severe coal and gas shortages if the price surge continues.

In this episode of Columbia Energy Exchange, host Jason Bordoff speaks with energy experts Anne-Sophie Corbeau and Dr. Tatiana Mitrova, who break down the latest on the crisis. 

Anne-Sophie Corbeau is currently a global research scholar at CGEP and was previously the head of gas analysis at BP and a senior gas analyst at the International Energy Agency. 

Tatiana Mitrova is a CGEP non-resident fellow and research director of the SKOLKOVO Energy Centre in Moscow. She is also a member of Schlumberger's Board of Directors, and NOVATEK’s Board of Directors.

Sep 14, 2021

The world’s biggest carbon capture and storage machine launched last week in Iceland. It’s called Orca. According to Swiss startup Climeworks, the company which built the plant, it will capture 4,000 metric tons of CO2 per year and bury it underground. 

The launch event for this new project was attended by the Center on Global Energy Policy’s Dr. Julio Friedmann. Host Bill Loveless snagged him for an interview to discuss what he saw there.

Julio is a Senior Research Scholar at CGEP and one of the most well-known experts on carbon capture, removal and storage. He is also a distinguished associate at the Energy Futures Initiative.

He gave his take on what the Orca plant foretells about this technology, the potential drawbacks, areas of concern, and why he believes that carbon capture technologies are integral to addressing climate change.

Sep 8, 2021

Mexico’s last President, Enrique Peña Nieto, put the country through a series of energy reforms that effectively opened up the Mexican energy market to private and foreign investment for the first time in 75 years. 

But the current Mexican President, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador wants to restore some of the power the state had before those reforms. 

The question now is whether the state will succeed in regaining a dominant position in Mexico’s energy sector once again, or whether international markets continue to play a relevant role.

 

For a conversation on the future of Mexico’s energy markets, Host Jason Bordoff Spoke with former Mexican Deputy Secretary for Planning and Energy Transition, Leonardo Beltrán Rodríguez.

Beltrán is a member of the Boards of Sustainable Energy for All, Fundacion Por México and the World Economic Forum’s Project in Partnership to Accelerate Sustainable Energy Innovation. He’s also a visiting fellow with the Columbia University Center On Global Energy Policy. 

Aug 31, 2021

This episode originally aired on August 6th, 2020.

Young people around the world are speaking out increasingly about the dangers of climate change and taking actions to reduce the risks of global warming in their lifetimes.

Host Bill Loveless interviewed Akshat Rathi, the editor of "United We Are Unstoppable," a collection of essays by 60 young people about their determination to save the world from climate change.The book is a stirring collection of stories about the impacts of climate change that are already taking place or are likely to do so in the future.

Bill and Akshat discuss the message and significance of these essays in a time when the risks of a warming planet loom large, especially for generations that will live through it this century.

Akshat writes for Bloomberg about people and their ideas for tackling climate change. Previously, he was a senior reporter at Quartz and a science editor at The Conversation. He has also worked for The Economist and the Royal Society of Chemistry.Akshat has a PhD in organic chemistry from the University of Oxford and a degree in chemical engineering from the Institute of Chemical Technology in Mumbai. 

He was a 2018 participant in the Columbia Energy Journalism Initiative, a program at the Center on Global Energy Policy that helps energy journalists deepen their understanding of complex topics associated with energy and environmental issues.

Aug 24, 2021

This episode originally aired on October 20th, 2020.

From California wildfires and Gulf Coast hurricanes to flooding in China and Pakistan, the impacts of climate change have grown increasingly evident. And whether it is agricultural workers, low-income and minority communities, or the world’s poorest in the Global South, the severe inequities in who bears the burden of climate change as well as in air and water pollution is also receiving growing recognition. 

In this episode of Columbia Energy Exchange, host Jason Bordoff is joined by one of the leading reporters today writing about the links between a warming planet and such issues as race, conflict, natural disasters, and big tech: Somini Sengupta

Somini is the international climate reporter for The New York Times. A George Polk Award-winning foreign correspondent, she previously worked in other capacities at The New York Times as its United Nations correspondent, West Africa Bureau Chief, and South Asia Bureau Chief.

She spoke about the critical role journalists play in telling the stories that help illuminate how climate change affects families and workers around the world. 

Aug 17, 2021

Last week, the UN Intergovernmental Panel On Climate Change released its new climate science report. The report is a blistering reminder that even if we stop burning fossil fuels today, the planet is locked into decades of warming and adverse climate outcomes. 

On this show, Host Bill Loveless interviews Climate Scientist Dr. Kate Marvel for her interpretation of the report’s conclusions. She’s a Research Scientist at the Center For Climate Systems Research at Columbia University and a scientist at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

Kate doesn’t have “hope” that we can slow climate change and transition away from fossil fuels, but she has something she says is better: Certainty that we have knowledge, tools and technology we need today to start decarbonizing rapidly. 

Aug 10, 2021

The Biden Administration has promised that 40% of its investments in clean energy will go into disadvantaged communities that experience the worst impacts of the changing climate. But as they work to make good on these promises, there are questions about how Biden’s team will execute.

In this episode, host Jason Bordoff speaks with Heather McTeer Toney about what true climate justice should look like. She’s a former Mississippi Mayor, Obama EPA Regional Administrator and now a Climate Justice Liaison for the Environmental Defense Fund and Senior Advisor to Moms Clean Air Force. 

They spoke about what it will take to elevate black and brown voices in climate policy. The conversation also touched on the massive infrastructure bill making its way through Congress, which will have a material impact on how energy systems, industry, roads, and transit are built in frontline communities. 

Aug 3, 2021

Fossil fuel companies are under pressure from shareholders, citizens and the courts to shift their business models to reduce emissions or face huge financial consequences. There are now more than 1,500 large corporations with net-zero emission pledges, including one-quarter of the S&P 500.

In today’s episode, host Bill Loveless speaks with Mindy Lubber — President and CEO of CERES, a sustainability nonprofit that pushes private companies to integrate the risks associated with climate change into their business strategies. 

They spoke about the changes happening in the market and inside boardrooms, and whether any of it is happening fast enough.

Jul 27, 2021

The global offshore wind industry is booming as China and Europe break records for the size and scope of their projects. 

 
The US wind industry is a different story. America only has one small commercial project in operation. But states and the federal government are working hard to change that. New York wants to build 9 gigawatts of wind projects off its coast by 2035. And it has awarded contracts to a major developer, Equinor, to build a third of that capacity.

Host Bill Loveless speaks with Richard Kauffman, Chairman of the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA) about the future of this energy source. Richard is also an Adjunct Senior Research Scholar at the Center On Global Energy Policy and Chair at Generate Capital. He lays out the legislatives and economic traps as well as the points of promise when it comes to American Offshore Wind.
Jul 20, 2021

Record-breaking heat waves in Oregon and Washington State. Wildfires rippling through the West. A looming season of hurricanes.

These weather events take a toll on human life and strain our energy infrastructure. 

But to what extent are extreme weather events made worse and more frequent by human-caused climate change?

This week on the podcast, climate scientist and Columbia Professor Adam Sobel speaks with host Jason Bordoff about the latest science behind attributing extreme weather events to the changing climate. 

They discuss the limitations and possibilities of this kind of attribution science and why making these connections matters.

Jul 13, 2021

In late June, Congress voted to undo former President Trump's rollback of methane regulations that were put in place during the Obama Era. 

The move was a major milestone, but federal methane rules are just the beginning, and the battle to curb methane emissions promises big shifts for the entire natural gas industry.

Host Bill Loveless speaks with Cate Hight, Principal at RMI, the Rock Mountain Institute. 

They spoke about the technology behind figuring out how much methane is in the atmosphere in the first place and the levers of policy and power that need to be pulled in order to curb emissions. 

Jul 6, 2021

The fight for climate justice in America presses on with signs of hope after a year of spirited activism and a new president. But the process of untangling the thicket of inequities in the energy system is far from over. 

Dr. Robert Bullard is one of the visionary leaders helping to make sense of this moment.

He's known as the "Father of Environmental Justice" and has written 18 books at the intersection of racial justice and the environment.

He speaks with Host Bill Loveless about what it will take to ensure that the Biden Administration's climate plans and appointments are infused with justice principles, including how a progressive climate agenda can reform the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.

Jun 29, 2021

The lithium-ion battery. The megawatt-scale wind turbine. The crystalline-silicon solar panel.

All popular, scalable low-carbon innovations that enjoy modern commercial success today started as prototypes with promise but lacking in funds, scalability, and widespread support. It takes innovators to bring those ideas out of the lab and into the global markets.

Host Jason Bordoff spoke with one of those innovators. Paul Dabbar is a former undersecretary of science for the U.S. Department of Energy and current CEO of Bohr Quantum Technologies. He’s also currently a Distinguished Visiting Fellow at Columbia’s Center on Global Energy Policy.

Their wide-ranging conversation focused on the legislative barriers toward research and development funding for renewable energy projects, the future of nuclear, and the cutting-edge field of quantum networking.

Jun 22, 2021

Last year, David Sandalow, Inaugural Fellow at Columbia’s Center on Global Energy Policy, reached out to two prominent scholars.

He asked if they would teach a session about the food system and climate change as part of a course he was teaching.

The connection would lead to the development of the Food Climate Partnership, a collaboration between the Center on Global Energy Policy, the Agricultural Model Intercomparison and Improvement Project (AgMIP) and New York University.

Host Bill Loveless speaks with the two scholars whose appearance in David’s classroom spawned the project, NYU Professor Matthew Hayek and NASA Scientist Cynthia Rosenzweig.

They speak about the carbon costs of global food production and how we can redirect our agriculture systems in a cleaner, greener direction.

Jun 8, 2021

In this final installment of conversations from the Center on Global Energy Policy’s recent annual Global Energy Summit, host Jason Bordoff is joined by Bernard Looney, CEO of bp, to discuss bp’s planned transformation from an oil and gas company to an integrated energy company, a little more than one year into the strategy. Jason and Bernard talk through the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic on the company and energy markets, what the new strategy means in practice, and what bp’s portfolio will look like in the future. 

Bernard Looney is Chief Executive Officer of bp, and has been with the company for 3 decades. He started off as a drilling engineer, and then later, oversaw BP’s oil and gas exploration, development, and production activities worldwide before taking the helm last year.

Jun 1, 2021

Continuing with conversations from the Center on Global Energy Policy’s recent annual Global Energy Summit, in this edition of Columbia Energy Exchange, host Jason Bordoff is joined by Gina McCarthy, National Climate Advisor at the White House to discuss the Biden Administration’s climate agenda.

Jason and Gina talk through the Biden administration’s nationally determined contribution (NDC), the measures the Administration will prioritize to deliver those results, whether it can secure bipartisan support for related infrastructure investments, and how Washington will encourage large-scale deployment of zero-carbon energy and cushion the impact on workers in legacy industries. 

Gina is the first National Climate Advisor—the president's chief advisor on domestic climate policy—and leads the White House Office of Domestic Climate Policy. Previously, she served as Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency and then as President and CEO of the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC). She has been at the forefront of environmental and public health issues for over three decades, at the state and federal levels, and for both Republican and Democratic elected officials.   

May 25, 2021

Last week, the Center on Global Energy Policy held its annual Global Energy Summit, which featured an all-star cast of energy leaders, policymakers and experts speaking on the most pressing energy and climate issues we face today. This year, in a virtual setting, speakers hailed from every corner of the world including Africa, South Asia, the Middle East, Europe, Latin America, and North America. In the weeks to come, a few of those conversations will be shared in podcast form. 

In this edition of Columbia Energy Exchange, host Jason Bordoff is joined by Dr. Fatih Birol, Executive Director of the International Energy Agency, who discussed key findings from the Agency’s groundbreaking new report on pathways to creating a global net-zero energy economy by 2050.  

Dr. Fatih Birol has served as Executive Director of the International Energy Agency since September 2015, has been at the IEA for a quarter century, and is widely recognized as one of the foremost global figures in the energy world. He is also chair of the World Economic Forum’s Energy Advisory Board and serves on the U.N. Secretary-General’s Advisory Board on Sustainable Energy for All. Before the IEA, Dr. Birol worked at the Organisation of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) in Vienna. He earned a BSc degree in power engineering from the Technical University of Istanbul and received an MSc and PhD in energy economics from the Technical University of Vienna. 

May 18, 2021

Last week, a cyberattack on the Colonial Pipeline system forced the shutdown of one of the nation’s most critical pieces of energy infrastructure, spurring price spikes and panicked buying to fill up tanks. While the pipeline is back up and running, the lasting significance of the Colonial outage--the largest attack on the US energy system in history--should not be overlooked. 

In this edition of Columbia Energy Exchange, host Jason Bordoff is joined by Bob McNally and Adam Segal, leading experts on energy and cybersecurity, respectively, to examine what happened with the Colonial Pipeline system and what lessons should be drawn about the vulnerability and resilience of critical energy infrastructure. 

Bob McNally is a Non-Resident Fellow at the Center on Global Energy Policy, and the founder and President of the Rapidan Energy Group. From 2001 to 2003, Bob served as the top international and domestic energy adviser on the White House staff. He is the author of the book Crude Volatility, published through the Center on Global Energy Policy book series.

Adam Segal is the Ira A. Lipman chair in emerging technologies and national security, and director of the Digital and Cyberspace Policy program at the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). He is the author of the  book The Hacked World Order: How Nations Fight, Trade, Maneuver, and Manipulate in the Digital Age. Before coming to CFR, Adam was an arms control analyst for the China Project at the Union of Concerned Scientists. He has been a visiting scholar at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Center for International Studies, the Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences, and Tsinghua University in Beijing. 

May 11, 2021

It’s been quite a tumultuous year for the oil and gas industry, from a historic pandemic that sent oil prices crashing to growing pressure and urgency for companies to align their strategies with the world’s escalating climate ambitions. Occidental Petroleum is one of those companies, which has faced those challenges and more, including how to manage the high profile acquisition of Anadarko shortly before the pandemic struck. 

In this edition of Columbia Energy Exchange, host Jason Bordoff is joined by the person navigating Occidental Petroleum through this period, its CEO, Vicki Hollub, who has been CEO since 2016. Vicki recently said Oxy would become not just an oil company but a carbon management company, and Jason asked her about that and more when they spoke a few days ago in front of a live virtual audience at the annual Climate Science and Investment Conference hosted by the Columbia Climate School and the Tamer Center for Social Enterprise at Columbia Business School. 

During her 35-year career with Occidental, Vicki has held a variety of management and technical positions on three continents. Vicki started her career working on oil rigs in 1981, after graduating from the University of Alabama. She’s the most senior woman in the oil and gas sector and was the first woman to head a major American oil company. 

May 4, 2021

For years, Washington State has been a battleground over carbon pricing, with advocates of the idea suffering one defeat after another. But that’s no longer the case now that the state legislature has passed a cap-and-trade bill that some supporters say will set the gold standard for addressing climate change in the United States.

In this edition of Columbia Energy Exchange, host Bill Loveless is joined by Mike Stevens, the Washington State director of The Nature Conservancy, a global environmental organization and one of the key players in the passage of the new Climate Commitment Act.

The bill is designed to reduce Washington State’s carbon emissions to net zero by 2050 through increasingly stringent restrictions on the state’s 100 biggest sources of emissions. They include refiners, gas utilities and Boeing, the world’s largest aerospace company.

If Governor Jay Inslee signs the bill as expected, Washington will become the second state after California with a comprehensive cap-and-trade system.

Once it takes effect in 2023, the Washington measure is forecast to raise $460 million in its first full year and at least $580 million annually by 2040, according to a report in the Seattle Times. That’s money that would be spent on a broad range of activities that include restoration of marine and fresh waters, forest health, renewable energy and public transportation. Some would be set aside to assist workers and low-income residents move to a clean-energy economy.

It’s those plans that prompt supporters of the measure to call it “cap and invest” rather than cap and trade.

Mike has headed the Washington State chapter of the organization since 2012. He brings more than 20 years of experience in conservation, sustainable agriculture and field science to his role as state director. Previously, he was a western sheep rancher and land manager.

Mike and Bill talked about the elements of this new law and how they would work, as well as the political dynamics that enabled success for its supporters after so many setbacks. They also delve into some of the features of this bill that distinguish it from other carbon proposals. Among them is a focus on environmental justice.

Apr 27, 2021

President Biden’s Leaders Summit on Climate, which brought together forty world leaders to galvanize efforts by the major economies around the world to tackle climate change, ended on Friday with the United States pledging to reduce its carbon emissions by at least half by 2030, along with pledges from many other countries to reduce emissions as well. Even with the Biden administration’s unequivocal message to the world that America is back when it comes to global climate leadership, numerous challenges lie ahead--from the thorny US-China relationship, to the limits of Biden’s own ability to drive emissions cuts at home with a deeply divided Congress. That’s the difficult task facing Secretary John Kerry and other global climate leaders in the months ahead as they work toward a  November United Nations Climate Change Conference that aims to raise ambition among both governments and the private sector. 

In this edition of Columbia Energy Exchange, host Jason Bordoff is joined by David Sandalow to discuss last week’s climate summit and what lies ahead. 

David Sandalow is the Inaugural Fellow at the Center on Global Energy Policy and co-Director of the Energy and Environment Concentration at the School of International and Public Affairs at Columbia University. He founded and directs the Center’s U.S.-China Program and is author of the Guide to Chinese Climate Policy. He has also been a Distinguished Visiting Professor in the Schwarzman Scholars Program at Tsinghua University. David has held many senior government climate posts, including acting Under Secretary and Assistant Secretary of Energy, Assistant Secretary of State and Senior Director on the National Security Council staff. 

Apr 20, 2021

The importance of diversity in energy finance is gaining attention as more investors look closer at how companies are stacking up when it comes to the representation of women and minorities on their boards of directors and in their management ranks.

And it is not just the energy sector discovering this trend. It is taking place across corporations in the U.S. and around the world, a point illustrated in a new commentary from the Center on Global Energy Policy.

In this episode of Columbia Energy Exchange, host Bill Loveless joins two of the authors of that commentary, Maria Jelescu, the CEO of Ardinall Investment Management, and Jully Meriño Carela, the director of the Women in Energy (WIE) initiative at CGEP.

Maria also co-chairs the WIE steering committee and serves on the center’s advisory board. She and Jully co-authored the commentary with Amy Myers Jaffe, the managing director of the Climate Policy Lab at Tufts University’s Fletcher School and a co-chair of the WIE steering committee.

In the commentary, the authors make clear that the social aspects of ESG -- or environmental, social and governance considerations -- are front and center now as pressure mounts on energy companies to address the gender and racial makeup of their operations and recognize the value of diversity to them.

The commentary is called “The Social Aspects of ESG Investing: Insights on Diversity in Energy Finance.”

The discussion is particularly timely now amid a new shareholder proxy season, as investors press companies on ESG factors, and the Biden administration signals that closer government scrutiny of these matters may be in order.

Maria founded Ardinall Investment in 2017 as a firm focused on sustainability and climate change solutions. Previously, she spent 15 years at Goldman Sachs in various investment roles. Jully worked in labor and nonprofit fields before joining the Center on Global Energy Policy and taking charge of the Women in Energy initiative. Its mission is to elevate women in the energy sector at all career stages.

The commentary can be found here.

Apr 13, 2021

As the first meetings take place between top Biden administration officials and their Chinese counterparts, the U.S. and China are beginning to map out how they plan to engage on climate change. Given diplomatic tensions between the two countries on such issues as trade, technology, and human rights, questions remain about whether the countries can cooperate to address the climate crisis.  

In this edition of Columbia Energy Exchange, host Jason Bordoff is joined by Kelly Sims Gallagher to discuss what both the U.S. and China are doing domestically on climate change, and whether and how their actions may play out as cooperation or competition between the two nations. 

Kelly Sims Gallagher is Academic Dean and Professor of Energy and Environmental Policy at The Fletcher School at Tufts University, where she directs the Climate Policy Lab and the Center for International Environment and Resource Policy. She served in the second term of the Obama Administration as a Senior Policy Advisor in the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, and as Senior China Advisor in the Special Envoy for Climate Change office at the U.S. State Department. 

Gallagher is the author of Titans of the Climate (The MIT Press 2018) and The Global Diffusion of Clean Energy Technologies: Lessons from China (MIT Press 2014), and dozens of other articles and book chapters.

Apr 6, 2021

There’s much afoot in Washington these days over the prospect of new policies to address climate change and to put the U.S. on more solid footing when it comes to consuming and producing energy. We’ll know more as time goes on as to whether the Biden administration and Congress can reach the difficult agreements necessary to put new policies in place.

Yet, even as we contemplate the possibilities, it’s worth taking a look back at how the U.S. energy policy has evolved over the years, especially during the 1970s, when energy crises roiled energy markets and Washington enacted more energy laws than at any other time.

In this edition of Columbia Energy Exchange, host Bill Loveless speaks with Jay Hakes, the author of a new book that looks closely at that era. It’s called “Energy Crises: Nixon, Ford and Carter, and Hard Choices in the 1970s.”

Jay is a former head of the U.S. Energy Information Administration and former director of the Jimmy Carter Presidential Library.

In his book, Jay describes events of the 1970s like the long gasoline lines amid the Arab oil embargo and the fall of the shah of Iran, the fuel shortages that closed schools and factories, the military and political tensions in the oil-rich Middle East and the sky-high inflation that wreaked havoc in the nation’s economy.

More to the point, he writes deeply about the perceptions of these events by the men who occupied the White House then, their determination to end U.S. reliance on foreign oil, and their successes and failures to persuade Congress to go along with their energy agendas.

In short, Jay tells us that the 1970s hold a pre-eminent place in the U.S. when it comes to energy, and he reminds us, as well, that actions then set the foundation for today’s energy production and consumption trends.

Mar 30, 2021

Innovation takes many forms and all of them are important as the U.S. and other countries look for ways to avoid a catastrophe from climate change. Over the years, the federal government in Washington has been a big contributor to science and technology in energy, the environment and other fields. And that’s likely to continue. But given the immensity of climate change and other challenges, new options for enabling breakthrough technology are important, too.

In this edition of Columbia Energy Exchange, host Bill Loveless reaches out to someone with a lot of experience with science and engineering in government, the private sector and finance. Arati Prabhakar was the head of the Defense Research Projects Agency at the U.S. Department of Defense, better known as DARPA, during the Obama administration and director of the National Institute of Standards and Technology under President Bill Clinton.

Arati’s family emigrated to the U.S. from India when she was a young girl, and she went on to earn a bachelor’s degree in electrical engineering from Texas Tech before heading to the California Institute of Technology, where she received a master’s degree in electrical engineering and a Ph.D. in applied physics.

Between her stints in Washington at NIST and DARPA, she moved to Silicon Valley, where she was chief technology officer and senior vice president at Raychem Corp. and then vice president and president of Interval Research. Later, she was a partner with U.S. Venture Partners, an early-stage venture capital firm.

Now, she’s back in Silicon Valley as a founder and the CEO of Actuate, which bills itself as a new kind of nonprofit organization, formed to contribute a fresh approach to society’s critical challenges, like climate change. In short, Arati sees a bigger role for philanthropy to play in addressing climate change.

Bill spoke with Arati about this new approach and why she thinks it fills a gap in public support for science and technology. They also talked about her experience in Washington, which over the years saw the U.S. government try different ways of advancing promising but risky technologies in energy and other fields. 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next » 9